I just can't work this out... Supercharging a M5...

[Tin]

Why are supercharger so damn expensive for the M5??? :confused: :confused:

GPower's setup to 600bhp: price 66,000euro's+12,500 for install a total of 78,500euros'!!! for 600bhp? :eek:

taken from their website : http://www.g-power.de/gpower.php?z1=4&xg=20&og=50&hg=110

G-POWER Supercharger conversion EVO 600 Bi-Compressor
Conversion of modified 5.0l G-POWER racing engine (to be carried out at G-POWER Germany). Output: 442kW (600hp), 0.60 bar boost pressure, consisting of: Integrated G-POWER supercharger G21 with noiseless run integrated in series strap-drive, G-POWER supercharger case made of high-quality carbon, optimized air-intake area, G-POWER special aluminium air-cooler (water-cooled air-cooler with integrated air pipe), air intake pipe, aluminium air cooler, stainless-steel air way pipe, special additional control unit (G-TRONIC) without any intervention into the series technology for ECU adjustment, G-POWER sport air filter, G-POWER rear sticker. Additionally contained: G-POWER floor mat set with logo made high-quality velours (optional in grey or black). Upon request with G-POWER sport gear knob in alu (fully polished). Exhaust flow optimizing G-POWER stainless-steel rear silencer for reduction of impact pressure by 30 per cent and torque increase of 15 Nm, GPR clutch and G-POWER speedometer in black up to 340 km/h in OEM quality.

Technical details:

Output: 442kW (600hp) / 7250 r.p.m.
Max. torque: 700 Nm / 4580 r.p.m.
V-Max: approx. 330 km/h
0-100 km/h: approx. 4.5 sec.

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Dinan S3 with 620bhp and 500lbs torque : $30,000+ your M5 has to be upto the S2 standard already, which is another $20,000... www.dinanbmw.com

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I just don't get it, if a e46 330 can be done for <6000euros' and a E39 540 can be done around 12500euros' (from 286bhp to 470bhp), WTF does the M5 have to triple/quadruple the price??? [hmm

sorry folks, just a rant... I need a bottle of coke :o [fight

[lee330sport]

I just don't get it, if a e46 330 can be done for <6000euros' and a E39 540 can be done around 12500euros' (from 286bhp to 470bhp), WTF does the M5 have to triple/quadruple the price??? [hmm

sorry folks, just a rant... I need a bottle of coke :o [fight

Maybe its just the throttle bodies that make the difference.

Still seems mega ££££ [hmm

[Durgesh]

Dude contact ASA, and see what they say? They might be able to do a custom job. I know you are fine with leaving it places anywayz. LOL

I thought you were selling it......?

Much better idea keep her and supercharge, but not at those prices.

Durgesh

[Tin]

Dude contact ASA, and see what they say? They might be able to do a custom job. I know you are fine with leaving it places anywayz. LOL

I thought you were selling it......?

Much better idea keep her and supercharge, but not at those prices.

Durgesh

thanks guys,

selling is an option, but it'd be "evotek-tastic" [read if the supercharger was done...

I did email Christian, but alas not comtemplating the E39s :(

Its just stupid the prices on these things for 78keuros' you can get a whole new m5... just abit biazare man..

ESS have a prototype supercharged M5 due in May, which i'll be looking at very closely, as their price is "somewhat" respectable amongst the other "tuners" [bang

[churchwa]

It is a bit like speakers, the cost to make a set of £1k speakers is about £20, but you are paying for all the R&D that went into designing them and making them.

They will have gone through countless M5 engines to get it right and be able to offer a warranty with it. Not to mention all the other components that would have failed during testing.

Then to factor in that they will probably only sell 5 of these packages to very rich people they can charge what they like.

[Afif]

yea how many M5's in the world are going to be supercharged? They basically can price it what they like. Maybe talk to them directly to negotiate something. There obviously making a crap load on it so may be willing to hook you up [jam.

[ANT MAN]

EUR77,000 :eek: :eek: , that's a joke. Does that include a flat in Germany too :D

You could also try www.mosselmanturbo.com they do SC and turbos, UK agent is Torque Developments, Barking.

[Tin]

It is a bit like speakers, the cost to make a set of £1k speakers is about £20, but you are paying for all the R&D that went into designing them and making them.

They will have gone through countless M5 engines to get it right and be able to offer a warranty with it. Not to mention all the other components that would have failed during testing.

Then to factor in that they will probably only sell 5 of these packages to very rich people they can charge what they like.


yes, i don't mind paying for R&D costs, thats fine, but eur78.5k is unrealistic imho, bearing in mind a brand new E60 M5 can be hand for that!

E39 M5 V8 S62 engine possibly costs 15-20k, labour installation etc, say 10k, so approx around 30k you can have a completely new engine installed (aslong as all the other bits are fine).. so 78.5k is way way unrealistic (all prices in euros).

I know Discovery Automotive in the US (small based company) can do a full V8 rebuild, with total race spec components, pushing out 800bhp for around $30k.. the only issues being, (a) sending the car there, (b) after install support back here in the uk. Driving/sending the car back over to germany isn't too much hassle if the worst happens, but the US.. [hmm

Another point, how much R&D is required between say the E39 540 v8 M52 engine (4.449cc) compared to the E39 M5 V8 S62 at 4.949cc ?

sorry churchwa, this isn't a go at you, just my frustration is that tuning companies think modders are wombats...and thus tend to charge what they like..

I've gone so far on my car, its ready for the supercharger (bolt-on), brakes/clutch/exhaust/suspension can all handle it... :o

Intake, charge cooler (if required), blower,mounting brackets/tubing etc and then the ecu retune... imho that shouldn't cost silly money.

Antman, will ask them if they can help. [ok

thanks for reading
tin [hmm

[peppernick]

Premium product my friend. That's the down side of driving an M. Virtually all options command a premium over the exact same products meant for their lesser non Motorsport breathen.

If you buy a Lambo, expect to pay £10k for a steering rack and £20k for a set of manifolds. It's the label 'Lamborghini parts' that make them so expensive. After all, I'm sure a lot of the parts are made in Taiwan [hiya :D ....shipped backed to Modena for the price tagging [bang

[churchwa]

I totally get what you are saying but I dont think this mod is for modders. Modders are like you and me who want to find the best possible solution for our requirments.

This is for a rich person who just wants a fast car, possibly armor plated, and does not want to do the research. They just throw money at the problem. €130k for a 5 seater supercar. This mod was probably made 4 years ago, so the new 500 bhp M5 was not even an option.

I agree this is a stupid mod, but it is as stupid as buying a Barabus Merc. They can cost up to £250k+

[lee330sport]

Why not speak to one of the uk tuning companies, im sure that if a m3 can be supercharged the same principles can be used on the M5 without costing 4 times as much :rolleyes: .

[Tin]

Why not speak to one of the uk tuning companies, im sure that if a m3 can be supercharged the same principles can be used on the M5 without costing 4 times as much :rolleyes: .

None of the uk companies as far as I'm aware are interested...

the E46 M3 engine is a very stressed at its 343bhp peak, but with proper work, can get 380bhp... the S62 engine by comparison is a less stressed block, hence the 500+ figures capable from forced induction.

The Ascari (i think, but one of the new supercars) has a rebuilt S62 engine by Mountune engineering (uk company) which pushes out 500bhp, with no forced induction, just mechanics, but they're a full on race pedigree company.

[Tin]

I totally get what you are saying but I dont think this mod is for modders. Modders are like you and me who want to find the best possible solution for our requirments.

Its the next evolution of modders :D 10 years ago, everyone was rating the 2.016v block at pushing 150bhp (vauxhaull/ford), nowadays thats considered measly. Renaults 182bhp from the 2litre, and the Honda Vtec's 200bhp...

its just human nature to want more power :p [jam

[churchwa]

10 years ago, people were tuning Ferraris, Astons, and i rememebr a twin turbo lambo.

My dads friend had an 840, and when someone said to him that he was loosing his style because someone else had the same car (then it was brand new) he said yes, but i have £40k's worth of work done to the engine on mine.

He had no idea what had been done, he just knew it was better. I bet you would never have mods done like that.

[lee330sport]

None of the uk companies as far as I'm aware are interested...

the E46 M3 engine is a very stressed at its 343bhp peak, but with proper work, can get 380bhp... the S62 engine by comparison is a less stressed block, hence the 500+ figures capable from forced induction.

The Ascari (i think, but one of the new supercars) has a rebuilt S62 engine by Mountune engineering (uk company) which pushes out 500bhp, with no forced induction, just mechanics, but they're a full on race pedigree company.

I dont know many companies but what about CA, i dont know any other bmw supercharging companies. But if they can turbo an M3 for around 6-8k then surely there is a possibilty they could work on the M5.

The only difference i can think of between a supercharged 540 is that the M5 would need a plenum chamber over the throttle bodies. Cant see that being all that much extra. :confused: Is it the same block?

[Durgesh]

I dont know many companies but what about CA?

Lee, you have not posted about your SK Plus?

How's she running?

Durgesh

[Tin]

I dont know many companies but what about CA, i dont know any other bmw supercharging companies. But if they can turbo an M3 for around 6-8k then surely there is a possibilty they could work on the M5.

The only difference i can think of between a supercharged 540 is that the M5 would need a plenum chamber over the throttle bodies. Cant see that being all that much extra. :confused: Is it the same block?

Yep, I'm sure they wouldn't mind working on a M5, but judging by latest reports on a mag featured supercharged E46 330, I'd rather not go to them.

540i block is similar to the M5 block, both V8's, but the M5 is 500cc bigger, with twin vanos units (although from 2001+ 540's had the same). Camshafts are totally different etc.
air intake is basically half of the m5, but the exhausts are the same.

[Durgesh]

Yep, I'm sure they wouldn't mind working on a M5, but judging by latest reports on a mag featured supercharged E46 330, I'd rather not go to them.


I was waiting for that to come up... LOL

Durgesh

[Tin]

I was waiting for that to come up... LOL

Durgesh

LOL.. patience I think is the key.. [read

[444bhp Ray]

Tin be careful man,i know some people they went to torque Development
with a cosworh,and soon after they took it to my mate,he had a look at it because some thing was wrong with it.Torque Development did not know what they we're doing with it,the reason i know this is because my mate he builds F1 engines & rally cars also done 2 engines for mountune in Maldon near me.My mate Joe was working for Jordon F1,now he works for him self.
he buit foe a doctor in london a RS 200 the engine was £40,000 and that was cheap.so be careful mate. :)BTW the RS was kicking out 650 BHP 0 too 60 in 3.25 sec,so i was told. :eek:

[ANT MAN]

Mountune, I can recommend. I took my cossie there back in the 90s (they were the days :D ) for a chip and tune. They used to build the engines for Ford's rally effort and did BTCC engines too.

Ray, didn't know you were from my neck of the woods? I used to live in Tiptree and now live in sunny Chelmsford. :) We are very lucky in our part of Essex, so many great B roads and not many cars to spoil the fun [cool

Tin, even after getting nitrous and supercharger, do you really think you'll out drag my Fiesta 1.25 zetec? :D

What's with the mag's review of CA S/C 330?

[Tin]

Mountune, I can recommend. I took my cossie there back in the 90s (they were the days :D ) for a chip and tune. They used to build the engines for Ford's rally effort and did BTCC engines too.

Ray, didn't know you were from my neck of the woods? I used to live in Tiptree and now live in sunny Chelmsford. :) We are very lucky in our part of Essex, so many great B roads and not many cars to spoil the fun [cool

Tin, even after getting nitrous and supercharger, do you really think you'll out drag my Fiesta 1.25 zetec? :D

What's with the mag's review of CA S/C 330?

Thanks Ray, did contact Mountune about M5 tuning last year, but got v little response :( TD i'll checkout though.

LOL, that zetec is something mate, no matter what i do, it'll still be a metre or 2 ahead [hmm

There wasn't anything wrong with the mag review itself (this months PBMW btw), just what happened a few weeks afterwards...in one word....Karputt :eek:

[MONRO3]

78,500 euros thats 100k American $$ you could buy a brand new M5 for that much and fill it with 1500 escorts to help you christen it up real nice ....damn you Europeans and your purchasing power!!!

[lee330sport]

Lee, you have not posted about your SK Plus?

How's she running?

Durgesh


Yeah havent had time to drive it to much, im at work most of the day. So ill give it a good kicking this weekend and put a report up. So far so good though. Apart from the SC is squeeling on idol, ill have to sort it out tonight.

[lee330sport]

Thanks Ray, did contact Mountune about M5 tuning last year, but got v little response :( TD i'll checkout though.

LOL, that zetec is something mate, no matter what i do, it'll still be a metre or 2 ahead [hmm

There wasn't anything wrong with the mag review itself (this months PBMW btw), just what happened a few weeks afterwards...in one word....Karputt :eek:

So what happened to the 330?

[Tin]

So what happened to the 330?

engine blown, brand new engine is apparently required.

[lee330sport]

engine blown, brand new engine is apparently required.

Anyone know whats its down to? Cant have been running that much boost, was only 315bhp :confused:

[peppernick]

I doubt it's the charger itself, it's the charger add-ons like alcohol injection etc that might have played the part. Plus it's not an ASA, so no worries for you there Lee ;)

[Durgesh]

Tin.

http://www.technikpower.com/catalog/superchargers/

This is RennSport's new company, send them an email and tell them you want to be first.

Durgesh

[Tin]

Tin.

http://www.technikpower.com/catalog/superchargers/

This is RennSport's new company, send them an email and tell them you want to be first.

Durgesh

thanks mate, email sent. ;) lets hope they're not connected to Osh/RMS in anyway, prices do look good though :)

[mysticm3]

EUR77,000 :eek: :eek: , that's a joke. Does that include a flat in Germany too :D

You could also try www.mosselmanturbo.com they do SC and turbos, UK agent is Torque Developments, Barking.

Euro77000+cost of standard M5 [bang I'd just go and buy a Porsche 911 Turbo or GT3 [bang x 3

[Durgesh]

thanks mate, email sent. ;) lets hope they're not connected to Osh/RMS in anyway, prices do look good though :)

Dude its RennSport, you can trust the quality of the stuff they sell, only the best. Will be interesting to see who is making the unit, keep me informed.

Durgesh

[peppernick]

Will be interesting to see who is making the unit, keep me informed.
AA Tuning :confused: :confused:

[Tin]

got a reply from them, they can't do anything at the moment, and recommended the kit available from Discovery Automotive (shadowman and the team), they have 2 M5's currently being supercharged, full engine rebuilds to handle 800+ bhp... pretty much the fastest/most powerful M5's in the world! I'd be relatively content with 600 :p lol, Shadowman's work is very very good, he's rebuilding the messed up M5 that RMS/Osh left. :rolleyes:

They had a feature in BMWcar (http://www.discovery-automotive.com/media/BMWmag10_04/bmwmag10_04.htm) a few month backTons of info/pics on Discovery Automotive (http://www.discovery-automotive.com)

BTW: they use most of the supporting bits I already have: ;)

UUC Clutch
Supersprint full system
Brembo brakes

They use a custom Vortech supercharger.... how does that compare to AA/ASA/ESS? [hmm

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Dinan's new S3 M5 is 620bhp with a 12mth warranty etc, been 2 years in the prototype stage, hence alot of work, but only available at their headquarters.
Dinan also offer big brake upgrades, (rebadged Brembos') with dinan specific pads.