Insurance dilemma...

[Chaos]

Got a bit of a brain-boiler here and I just can't decide, so I'm open to advice.. ;)

I'm hoping to put some new rims on my car in the next few weeks. I've just been having some to-ing and fro-ing with the insurance company (Direct Line) about my renewal premium, so I thought while I'm sorting that stuff out I'd mention it to them. They want to load my premium by 27.5% - just for some frigging alloys. :mad: Now, don't get me wrong, they're pretty cheap comparitively on the stock premium, but that just seems like a piss-take to me.. :(

My dilemma is obvious: Do I keep my mouth shut and not tell them, hoping to never have an issue with it, or do I bend over and cough one up to be safe? What do we think guys?

[BigFas]

If the 27.5% loading is going to cost more than replacing your rims, keep shtum, if it's significantly less, pay it. My policy says even with the mods declared, they will only replace with stock items, hence I've not declared the mods as I'm going to get a stock replacement anyway

[Davidch]

It's a risk you take mate. I take it the wheels will be 19's. I would just put the new one's on and not tell them and play dumb if anything happens. like you bought the car with them wheels on. :D

[Working Cars]

Alloy wheels should not load the insurance by more than 10% ever.....

I think you need to think about it a little harder though, it's not just the replacement of the wheels, but as you may know, if you don;t declare the mod, you're insurance is invalid...!!!

There are never any exceptions to this...

So for example, you're fully comp, a car pulls out on you, and you swerve to miss them, you mount the curb and hit a lampost.... The wheel is ripped in half along with the suspension leg etc....

How do you explain to the assessor that you have 4 perfectly good rims on your car...!! Cos you would have to change them back....

Another example, and it happens more these days, the police stop you, you provide your details at the roadside, and they phone the insurance company to chacek if any mods are declared... They say no and there you are with nice shiny 19in wheels... 6 points for no insurance and the next time you have to buy it it will be loaded...!!!

My advice would be to find a mod friendly insurance company...

[danch]

I am with Liverpool Victoria/Frizzell for my car insurance, cheapest I can find but also mod friendly (within reason) only downer is you have to be over 25.

HTH

Daniel

[Gee]

It all comes down to whether you are willing to take the risk or not. If you have upgraded to 19's the insurers may see the car as higher risk due to the car being more desirable to thieves. As it is more risk for them they will add a premium to your policy to cover the risk (ie. the 27.5%).

Now if you didn't declare the wheels and the car was stolen and later recovered with every panel damaged it is likely your insurers would not pay out for this damage due to the fact that you didn't pay a premium to cover their increased risk.

Unfortunately playing dumb doesn't work with insurers as they will do ANYTHING not to pay out. They are running a business at the end of the day and if they can get away with not paying money out the they will.

If you only have a month or 2 to run on your policy then I would probably take the risk. Thereafter I would find a mod friendly insurer as I don't think Direct Line is one of them. Good luck with whichever way you go [cool .

[Stock323iSaloon]

My insurer wanted 100 for the HID, 80 for 17" alloys, 75 for white dials, and they won't insure me if I got tints. All mods will only be replaced by oem parts if I made a claim. The extra premium was deemed appropriate in case the car was more 'attractive' to thieves. So common sense prevailed and , I kept my mouth shut any pay 380p/a protected :D

[MistaSmiff]

I've never declared alloys .. [cool

[Chaos]

People seem to be thinking along the same lines as me, although it's still a tough call. For some extra info:

I pay £725 fully comp for my M3 vert at 36 (yes, I'm an old fart :(). They want £199.50 for adding any non-stock alloys. My concern isn't replacing an alloy if I ding it, it's what WC mentioned, that they will invalidate my warranty if I stack the car and they notice that it has non-stock wheels on. They're doing this a lot recently - any excuse they can find not to pay out.
I know it's my call to make, so I'm not looking for anyone to shoulder the responsibility for it, I'm just dithering over whether to risk it or whether to get ripped off, cos 200 quid for adding some alloys seems like a right royal hook-up to me. (I did look at Frizzell when I renewed last month Daniel, but their prices were a total joke tbh m8, maybe I'm a weird person to insure or something.. :confused: )

[danch]

Chaos,
Your not the first to mention that Liverpool Victoria where costly which is strange cause me & the mrs can't find anywhere cheaper :confused:

Maybe Liverpool Victoria favour scousers ;)

Cheers

Daniel

[Raj]

I've always gone with mod friendly insurers and declared everything (simply so I know I am covered no matter what). Having sadi that, I wouldn't pay nearly £200 to declare a set of rims. I paid £10 extra to cover the BBS's but if it were closer to what your insurance company were asking then I'd just keep schtum until you some round next year to your renewal. Just plead ignorance if anything happens that means you can't swap 'em back to stock.

[Afif]

never declared any mods personally... hell i didnt even tell the insurance company i passed my test till renewal time came :eek:!

On the note working said about police pulling you over and doing that. Rule number 1 when police pull you over. Never provide any details :p. Dont even mention who your insurred with. I dont even show them my license (which i always carry with me). End of the day all they can do is give you a producer and thats fine with me because i am insured on it and i do have a valid license :). The officer in the police station just checks that paper work not compares it against the car ect..

200 quid for rims sound a bit steep. Maybe ring up again and try a diferent sales person. That worked for a mate ;).

[peppernick]

If the rims look remarkably similar to OEM BMW wheels, don't tell them. They will always ask you do you have any mods done to your car. It's like someone trying to stare you down, if you crack under their pressure and give in, ka-ching for them. If you don;t do you think they really know their stuffs enough to tell? OK 22" spinners is a different story but say a set of CSL rims? What do they know, it even comes with the 'M' sticker!

Anothing thing is I declare that I have aftermarket wheels on my car but they came with my car. Somehow, insurance companies are more likely to tolerate that for some reason. I've been through quite a few insurers and if I told them that, I don;t have to pay the premium. However, if I told them that I put on a set of aftermarket rims after I bought the car, then the cut throat premium applies. Strange but true. So all my cars came with the BBS, but I doubt they can distinguish between BBS CHs or LMs ;)

[BMW330d]

I have just fitted 19" CH rims to my car and Norwich Union has not increased the premium, they have however increased the xs to £350 instead of the £100 for the original car.

[InvIs Inc]

dude its only 200 quid thats a few tanks of u bootin it at the weekend lol so pay it and take it easy on the driving for a few weeks or save on summit else but u kno how it is u dont tell them summit dumb will happen like ur car will be hit while parked or summit and cops already there before u can change or summit else totally out of ur control... its sod law dude u dont pay u run a chance of gettin fucked over that lil bit harder than 200 rise in ur premium..

i would pay it for the piece of mind and in the mean time try and find a mod friendly insurer that will have ur back on future mods without trying 2 hump ur ass lol

as they say in blind date... 'dan the coice... is yours'

tararr chuck ;) lol

[Working Cars]

On the note working said about police pulling you over and doing that. Rule number 1 when police pull you over. Never provide any details :p. Dont even mention who your insurred with. I dont even show them my license (which i always carry with me). End of the day all they can do is give you a producer and thats fine with me because i am insured on it and i do have a valid license :). The officer in the police station just checks that paper work not compares it against the car ect..

If you get stopped by a traffic officer around where i live, they have been known to write on the HORT1 that the police station is to "check for mods", meaning when you go into produce, they WILL phone the insurance company...!!!

At least 2 people around this way have been caught out in the last month....

The down side to phoning and asking what the extra cost will be is that they will be looking hard if you have to claim, better to shut up in the first place and say they where on the car when i bought it and didn't realise it was modified... ;)

[Afif]

If you get stopped by a traffic officer around where i live, they have been known to write on the HORT1 that the police station is to "check for mods", meaning when you go into produce, they WILL phone the insurance company...!!!

At least 2 people around this way have been caught out in the last month....

The down side to phoning and asking what the extra cost will be is that they will be looking hard if you have to claim, better to shut up in the first place and say they where on the car when i bought it and didn't realise it was modified... ;)

:eek: Where do you live dude!... Im going to stay well clear.

[Working Cars]

I'm in croydon, but it is spreading throughout the MET at a nasty rate from what i gather... Especially with "younger" drivers in flash cars....

The only good news is that it appears that it is only traffic police that are doing it, they note the mods by writing on the HORT1 "modified" and listing the mods in there book...

[peppernick]

I'm in croydon, but it is spreading throughout the MET at a nasty rate from what i gather... Especially with "younger" drivers in flash cars....

The only good news is that it appears that it is only traffic police that are doing it, they note the mods by writing on the HORT1 "modified" and listing the mods in there book...
I supposed these so called 'police' :rolleyes: target the cars that are maxed to the stratosphere with huge wings, under chassis lighting etc. Can't see them pulling over a beemer saying you've got a set of Brembos on.

[Working Cars]

i of the blokes that got stopped and checked was in a standard looking X5 but he had 20's on it.... And that was the only mod...!

[Afif]

i of the blokes that got stopped and checked was in a standard looking X5 but he had 20's on it.... And that was the only mod...!

well ive never had police say anything about my mods and i get pulled over quite regularly :o ... their more focused on whether the car is mine than whats been done to it. Although i dont spend to much time south of the river :p.

[Defector]

Well guys, i'm not often able to impart much wisdom on here, as i don't have the wedge to keep up with all you hardcore modders! [bow

However, i do happen to work for an insurance company, so here's my 2p worth:

A/ I have never mentioned any mods.

B/ The threat of 'invalidating' your insurance is a very rare occurance, and is very unlikely to happen over a set of alloys....a 'charger on the other hand, maybe. Most of the time they will ask you to cough up the difference between the premiums and give you a slap on the wrist come claim time.

I refuse to pay 25% for a mod which they WILL NOT replace if it gets damaged. If they aren't going to pay for it, then i don't need to pay for the insurance.

Insurance companies argue that alloys, etc will make your car more likely to be broken into. In reality, this simply is a myth. Very few cars a stolen these days, thanks to better security and locks etc. Having £1k worth of ICE on show is far more likely to get your motor broken into, yet most companies cover it for free.

At the end of the day, yes, there is a chance your cover will be invalidated. This is more likely to happen with a cheap and chearful 'supermarket' insurer or a 'back of the mag' insurer who are running tighter margins.

A bigger company will be more interested in 'Brand Values' and 'Customer Focus' both of which will be damaged if policies are invalidated left, right and centre over a set of alloys.

That said, it's YOUR decision guys and i take no responsibility.

[Chaos]

Interesting input, thanks very much. They did ask me how much the wheels would be worth, which led me to believe that they would be insuring them if they got stolen (which I figured was one of their concerns), but I had presumed they would use any chance to get out of a pay-out that they could, even though they're a fairly high-profile company and customer satisfaction is what it is these days. Interesting to hear how it's viewed from within the business.

Someone else also mentioned that now I've enquired it would probably be on my policy notes and they'd look for it, which also crossed my mind and made me annoyed that I'd even asked, but I wasn't to know how stupid the quote would be. :(

I think I'm going to call them back tomorrow and lay into them about the stupidly high percentage then threaten to cancel my policy with them again (3rd time in a month, the previous 2 times I cancelled because first they screwed me about and then they tried to rip me off on the price of the policy against the quote on the internet, so they've already backed down twice). If push comes to shove, I think I'll have to pay it this time and then next year look for an insurer who isn't quoting cuckoo prices and who wants some business.

[Defector]

Someone else also mentioned that now I've enquired it would probably be on my policy notes and they'd look for it, which also crossed my mind and made me annoyed that I'd even asked, but I wasn't to know how stupid the quote would be. :(



Yes, it most definitely will be. Rule #1, never say anything to an insurance company customer services exec unless you have to. Everything gets put on the notes section (well it does on our policies anyway). [bang [thumbsdow

[Shuriken]

I personally would pay it. I know it sucks but it's sod law that if the worst happened, you wouldn't get your money. I think if you did something to your car worthy of an insurance claim, thats enough hassle without worrying whether or not you will actually get any money.

My vote is pay it, but definitely have a moan first. It's peace of mind as well as anything else as someone else said. You have enquired as well, so it would be very suspicious if they ever went to check your policy and found you didn't declare anything after asking about it.

Shuriken.

[InvIs Inc]

the other thing about not saying aswell dude if some1 strips ur car ur gunna have 2 pay for eeeeeverything from scratch again and its not as bad when at least most of it is paid for u :o

who remembers that post of the e46 parked in a car park totally stripped in the space it was left in??? think the thing came from e46fanatics? any1 got the link??

[BMW330d]

This story of what happened to a friend of mine probably ten years ago now has always made my mind up for me...

He owned a Fiesta RS turbo, which he left in the local cinema car park, came out later in the evening and the car was gone.

He made a claim against his insurance and all progressed well, he got his settlement offer through and then disputed it and said he wanted more, they asked him to prove the condition of his car so he sent photo in and chased and chased, all was now quite when he got a cheque in the post for the unused premium and a later saying the were not obliged to pay any claim as the vehicle was modified.

For clarification the only visable mod in the photos was a different set of alloys, still 15" like OEM wheels and still a genuine Ford wheel, but still no pay out.

For all of you that are crying backstreet insurance company it wasn't, it was actually Direct Line!

Since this day forward I have declared mods, my advice would be if you cant't afford the extra premium don't do it it just is not worth it.

[peppernick]

For clarification the only visable mod in the photos was a different set of alloys, still 15" like OEM wheels and still a genuine Ford wheel, but still no pay out.
Did he contest it at all? What's wrong with the car coming with those wheels from Ford? They haven't seen the original state of the car.

Thing with insurance companies is that they will use all info given to them by the owner (pic of a modified car etc) to bum f*** you back. Because the majority of the consumers have a very soft spot, ie. they are scared. So insurance companies find that spot and squeeze. Tell them only what they need to know.

[Nickleback]

What about getting a list of Mod friendly insurers together, mine's due in the next 2 weeks & I would prefer to declare mine especially with 2.5k of new wheels on it which are definately non std !!
When I tried to cover them with my current insurer Admiral as warranty replacements by BMW, they refused to cover said it would invalidate insurance from now on if I claimed, cause they dont cover modded cars - eventually they relented, noted the change & said the car would be more desirable to steal, carried on the policy & if anything happened I would get stock wheels back but no increase in premium !!
SOB's so I'm moving on :mad:

[Working Cars]

That would be fair enough though.... I mean if you think about what BMW charges for a set of wheels... And they don't load the insurance but you only get stock back.... The money for the wheels would pretty much be the same, and in some cases could well end up as being more.....

[BMW330d]

Did he contest it at all? What's wrong with the car coming with those wheels from Ford? They haven't seen the original state of the car.

Thing with insurance companies is that they will use all info given to them by the owner (pic of a modified car etc) to bum f*** you back. Because the majority of the consumers have a very soft spot, ie. they are scared. So insurance companies find that spot and squeeze. Tell them only what they need to know.


I think he did contest it but lost in court as the wheel fitted to the car was only available as an accessory part and never fitted to any Ford from the factory. The part in question had not been on the market for long either so it became obviuos that he knew more than he was letting on to.

Just been talking to a friend about this and he tell me there is a similar thread on the TT forum, somebody has had his insurance voided because he has painted his calipers red! Now that is bad. If he sends me the link I will ost it up.

[Defector]

I always find it interesting how someone always knows a 'mate of a mate' etc who has had their policy voided due to mods. I'm sure insurance companies love this sort of urban myth continuing.

Don't get me wrong i;m not saying it doesn't happen, but you only hear about the times it does and not about the majority of times it doesn't.

In this example, he was a little careless to give them a picture with the wheels on. Would have been better to have said he didn't have a picture. Also, being that they were ford wheels, it would have been very wise to plead total ignorance instead of admitting adding them.

But, hindsight, as they say, is the only clear vision.


the other thing about not saying aswell dude if some1 strips ur car ur gunna have 2 pay for eeeeeverything from scratch again and its not as bad when at least most of it is paid for u

As for the above point, part of the issue is that virtually none of the insurers will pay out for mods if you did get them stolen. They only replace with standard parts, but you still pay a higher premium.

At the end of the day guys, do whats most comfortable for you.

ps. Little bruv (Shuriken) judging by your post, i presume you have informed your insurance company of your CCFLs and clear lenses? ;)

[will_uk]

So I'm confused a little here..

Judging by the general comments on here am I right in saying that the following scenario would apply? :

If you had your brand new car fitted at the factory with (optional) OEM xenon headlights (for example) and 5 years down the line your xenons were stripped from the car (or worse still, your car was stolen) then the insurance company would only pay out for halogen lights because the car only came with them standard?

Surely not? but maybe I'm missing something?

Will...

[Nickleback]

I think not! :(
Std Clubsport wheels £1200
Warranty replaced ACS 3R's £2800
I'm down £1600 :eek:

[beemarman]

So I'm confused a little here..

Judging by the general comments on here am I right in saying that the following scenario would apply? :

If you had your brand new car fitted at the factory with (optional) OEM xenon headlights (for example) and 5 years down the line your xenons were stripped from the car (or worse still, your car was stolen) then the insurance company would only pay out for halogen lights because the car only came with them standard?

Surely not? but maybe I'm missing something?

Will...

This is correct.

I had to declare my change of alloys on my car. the premium went up by £150. the peace of mind is the only reason why i pay. i paid a lot of money for my car and i dont want the insurance company to find any excuse not to pay if something happens to my car.

you need to remenber how much your car is worth then ask yourself is it worth taking the risk just to save £200?

[BigFas]

This is correct.

I had to declare my change of alloys on my car. the premium went up by £150. the peace of mind is the only reason why i pay. i paid a lot of money for my car and i dont want the insurance company to find any excuse not to pay if something happens to my car.

you need to remenber how much your car is worth then ask yourself is it worth taking the risk just to save £200?

You know you're only paying the additional premium because your car has become more desireable with the new wheels right? They get jacked (god forbid) standard ones will be on their way, not a new set of the upgraded rims

[simpleton]

i got quoted almost 2k for a 316 i se from liverpool victoria! :eek:
i then got a quote of around £850 from churchill. thats a huuuuuge difference. my advice, keep searching...

[danch]

simpleton, that is what I am on about, on my 2002 330Ci @ 31 I am paying circa £800 FC

Tis Strange

Cheers

Daniel

[Chaos]

Churchill were almost a grand. Trust me, some of the boys know, I'll get the best quality I can but I won't pay over the odds for anything, period, so I made a good 20-30 calls when I was getting prices and DL were cheapest by approximately £250 (Elephant) and they're a high profile company, hence I went with them.

One point of note though, when I was arguing the toss about having new alloys, I tried to lean on them and ask what if I'd bought it with them on. They said they insure the car as it comes out of the factory, and anything after that is a mod. Which would mean that, if the person I spoke to was correct, they insure any optional extras as a standard fitment and anything after that is a mod. So Will's scenario would work with DL, but I guess that may change from company to company.

[Nickleback]

Just got off the phone to Admiral, & my replacement ACS wheels are covered as std now because BMW replaced them. Fully Comp protected policy has dropped from £435 to £387 now as I have reduced annual mileage to 15k. :D
At least their is some advantages to getting old !! :eek:
M3 CS estimate for next year if I change is still £800 :(

[Mikedav]

If you had your brand new car fitted at the factory with (optional) OEM xenon headlights (for example) and 5 years down the line your xenons were stripped from the car (or worse still, your car was stolen) then the insurance company would only pay out for halogens?

In theory yes. In practice...unlikely.

Think about the millions of Mrs Jones's out there who know nowt about cars. If insurance firms didn't pay out because she had Satnav fitted, or bought my old car with OEM style 18" VW wheels that weren't stock, but didn't know. They would be STRAIGHT onto Watchdog. What they are REALLY worried about is £4ks worth of wheels or undeclared turbos. You can take all this insurance shenanigans too far; some examples...

1. I used to have a Bora V6 4Mo with £2500 worth of OEM leather Recaros. If one was nicked, would they replace that with a cloth one?

2. A guy on another forum had a Bora with full OEM Votex bodykit (Germany sourced). He sold it, and the new owner had a minor rear prang. The insurance company could not identify the bumper anywhere, so paid out in full. BUT clearly an undeclared mod?

3. Another guy fitted a W8 overhead light inside (very common mod, has BMW style downlighting). He declared it on the insurance - its a piece of interior trim worth £20 for gods sake - and they added £58 to his premium and listed it as a 'spot light', as they didn't really get it.

IMO yes, if they do it to the letter you could get screwed. But common sense also applies. I've been told by an insurance company assessor that things like induction kits etc are prett irrelevent and he wouldn't care.

[steveo]

I have just fitted 19" CH rims to my car and Norwich Union has not increased the premium, they have however increased the xs to £350 instead of the £100 for the original car.


i work at the rac and they are now owned by norwich union, with wheels, spoilers, audio cover they usually just increase the excess which is so much better and cheaper in the long run.

give norwich union or adrian flux a call they are USUALLY a lot better with mods

[Defector]

i work at the rac and they are now owned by norwich union, with wheels, spoilers, audio cover they usually just increase the excess which is so much better and cheaper in the long run.

give norwich union or adrian flux a call they are USUALLY a lot better with mods

We are? :eek:

NUI / NUD are certainly not good for mods, i know...i was looking through all the premium tables today looking for a loop-hole! (Didn't find one! :confused: )

I'm currently involved in the RAC - NUD conversion. I know that the CDL system RAC uses is much more flexible with mods than NUD so you might be right. But it will all change as it morphs to RAC Direct.

Adrian Flux are very good at ACCEPTING mods, but try getting the money off of them come claim time....i;ve heard horror story after another. [thumbsdow

[simpleton]

you've done well chaos.
i wish i wasn't such a lazy bugger and made that many calls when insuring my car. the trick is to chnage insurers every year because there is always someone offering a slightly cheaper quote to your renewal quote. i was with elephant two years ago but churchill gave me a cheaper quote compared to them this year. my insurance runs out on the 21st of this month so i gotta get my finger out of my *** and do some talking me thinks. :D btw, there are a lot of knowledgable guys on this forum i must say. keep up the good work fellas.


Churchill were almost a grand. Trust me, some of the boys know, I'll get the best quality I can but I won't pay over the odds for anything, period, so I made a good 20-30 calls when I was getting prices and DL were cheapest by approximately £250 (Elephant) and they're a high profile company, hence I went with them.

One point of note though, when I was arguing the toss about having new alloys, I tried to lean on them and ask what if I'd bought it with them on. They said they insure the car as it comes out of the factory, and anything after that is a mod. Which would mean that, if the person I spoke to was correct, they insure any optional extras as a standard fitment and anything after that is a mod. So Will's scenario would work with DL, but I guess that may change from company to company.