E46 2000 Rear subframe mounts ripping out [Archive]

Infinity_UK

02-08-2005, 03:26 PM

:(
Hi guys,

I'm new here. Let me introduce myself. I'm one of Tin's mates who used to really feel the need for speed. But since getting married and having a son, I've had to calm down!!! Is'nt that right Tin.

I drive a 2000, 328i. I've just been told by an independent BMW specialist that my rear subframe mounts are ripping off, and its a manufacturing fault. I've checked through various forums and found that some BMW garages will repair it for free, but other won't. I know its going to be a very expensive repair.

I live in Wembley and work on Slough. Has anyone had a similar problem? If so where did they go to get it sorted out and how did they go about it?

Thanks.

Sid

330-Singh

02-08-2005, 03:40 PM

I think your best bet would be to contact a BMW dealer and ask them for their opinion and whether it was a recall?

I can't say I have heard of it being a recall, it must have been something done simply as a good will gesture perhap.

peppernick

02-08-2005, 04:22 PM

It's a known problem with the M52 engined cars but only the coupes. If your car is still under warranty, then it's not a problem. However, if it's not, then you need to speak NICELY with your dealer and also BMWGB. If any repairs are to be done FOC they will be done under the discretion of BMWGB and as a goodwill gesture. It has been done a few times in the UK. So don't demand a solution, ask nicely and they should reciprocate.

The repair itself is very straight forward. The subframe mounting areas need to be welded. The costly bit is to remove the entire rear end and putting it back on. A skilled welder can do the job for you in 2 hours, but you must find someone who is confident enough to remove the entire rear end for you and put it back as per factory.

Good luck!

Raj

02-08-2005, 04:45 PM

Have read about this on fanatics. Got to say I am worried as I to have a 2000 328. I might speak to my dealer about this as I am not sure what to really look for and whether it will definitely cause a problem in the future.

audiophilia

02-08-2005, 05:31 PM

There has been a lot of 'hstyeria' about the subframe problem on fanatics and other sites. If it happens to you, like Infinity, sure, have a good scream about it. Really bad luck. Design flaw...sure. But I'd love to know the real stats behind this problem. Is it something we should worry about and be looking for, or is it a one in a 10,000 chance... [hmm

In any case, good luck Infinity. Let us know what happens.... :)

Tin

02-08-2005, 05:40 PM

hey sid, good to see you signed up.. told ya the e46 boyz will be on da case in mins ;)
hope its sorted soon, let me know if i can help with anything... catch up soon geez. [jam

ps: your one of the guys i blame for my addiction to cars n speed.. :p

Infinity_UK

05-08-2005, 07:07 AM

Well Guys,

I've booked my car in with BMW today at 3:30pm. I'll let them inspect it first and see whatthey say, then mention the subframe issues etc and just hope for the best!

I'll let you know how it goes..... thanks

Tin

05-08-2005, 08:12 AM

good luck [ok

Infinity_UK

05-08-2005, 05:32 PM

I've just got back form BMW.The first service guy said if it is the subframe known problem the will get BMW to fix it as a will of good gesture. :)

The mechanic put my car on the ramp and after 20mins told me that te rubber diff mounts need replacing. :mad: This was the first one he had ever seen. The total cost was around £450. They were not going to charge me for the inspection today. BUT, I kept asking him if there was any subframe damage and he said no...the twist to the story is that my Independent BMW garage told me that the was a big crack and the floot was ripping off.
I phoned my independent garage and he double confirmed the problems. So I went back to BMW and said I want them to check again, as I've been told the floor is ripping. The service guy ( a different guy) looked at me funny - as though I was insulting him and said they can't put it back on the ramp today (even though the ramp was empty), but I can book it in again for tuesday, but i will be charged £90 for the relook. So I booked it in and hopfully will prove my point!!.

I'm going to jack up my car this weekend and take some pics!!

I'll keep you posted!

Shuriken

05-08-2005, 09:27 PM

Good luck with it, can't beat conflicting reports but hopefully your wallet will not suffer too heavily. :)

Shuriken.

Infinity_UK

06-08-2005, 11:27 AM

I've just jacked up the car and had a look myself and taken some pics! There is of damage under there. It looks like subframe damage as I the car is ripping apart. Can anyone confirm it for me please!! BMW said it was the rubber int he diff that was causing the problems. Can this ripping of the car cause the rubber on the diff to go? I need to build a good case to BMW.

Infinity_UK

09-08-2005, 04:58 PM

Just got back from BMW for the second time. This time the car was on the ramp for over an hour. The service advisor then came to me and said we have noticed the cracks - don't know why our guy missed it before - it was the same guy who inspected it again, but you car is not safe to drive and the petrol tank is sititng on the subframe and cost split and catch on fire.

He said he will contact BMEGB tomorrow and let me know what they can do. It's the first one they have seen.

I've left my car there. I will keep you posted. They did not charge me.

peppernick

09-08-2005, 05:18 PM

Yep cracked subframe. Needs welding.

I suggest you go to www.e46fanatics.com and search for 'subframe' and print out as many threads as possible to show them that this is primarily a manufacturing fault. There's nothing to do with the diff or the diff mount.

Good luck!

Shuriken

09-08-2005, 10:12 PM

Good luck with it mate, at least they haven't tried to be stingy about it and asked for money. Hope you get it all sorted nicely.

Shuriken.

Tin

09-08-2005, 10:19 PM

peppernick

09-08-2005, 10:23 PM

damn sidders, thats bad.. :( really hope it gets resolved. Being a 328 with 192bhp, they must have revised the subframe mounting and welds on larger engined e46s, which must surely have resulted in more pressure/stress in that area.
M54 engined cars eg:320/325/330 all come with re-inforced subframes. Hence, BMW must have realised themselves it's a design fault.

Tin

10-08-2005, 07:52 AM

M54 engined cars eg:320/325/330 all come with re-inforced subframes. Hence, BMW must have realised themselves it's a design fault.

ahhhh.... thanks nick.. your a jar full of bmw history! ;) any idea of the internal technical bulletin number? heheh worth a shot. [hiya

adood84

10-08-2005, 07:59 AM

who much of a risk this happing to my car ? its scary :(

Infinity_UK

10-08-2005, 03:04 PM

BMW phoned me today and told me have contacted BMW GB and are trying to put a warrenty claim trough. They said they need my car at thier garage, as they need to take pictures, video footage and take measurements. Also if BMW GB need to inspect it they can go to the garage and do so.

I wish they told me this yesterday as I would have left my car there. Anyway since my car was not in a safe state to drive , I arranged for the AA to pic it up and take it to the garage..... and now I'll just have to play the waiting game. :o

BigFas

10-08-2005, 03:07 PM

who much of a risk this happing to my car ? its scary :(

None. It was only the earlier cars that were affected.

Infinity, good luck, keep us posted

estoril 328

10-08-2005, 05:31 PM

None. It was only the earlier cars that were affected.

Infinity, good luck, keep us posted

My E46 328 is a 2000 model- is it safe then?.

peppernick

10-08-2005, 11:05 PM

My E46 328 is a 2000 model- is it safe then?.
Same batch but not all cars affected. Good luck.

Infinity_UK

11-08-2005, 07:24 AM

Richie in Dublin

11-08-2005, 08:18 AM

This happened to my car around 6 months ago. I noticed there was a creaking sound coming from the rear and thought it was bushes or somethin and left it into my friend who wasn't long about tellin me to bring it to BMW immediately.I photographed it and brought it to my local dealer who contacted BMW in my behalf and agreed to have it looked at. They confirmed it was the subframe and replaced it free of charge.They gave me a one series followed by a 320d to use while it was in. I had to wait a week before they could do it as there was another car in for the same problem.
When I picked her up from the dealers there was another subframe being delivered for the next one. This is a major problem for cars of that time but it's good as new now :D

paulm3

11-08-2005, 08:43 AM

ooo, good luvk with getting it sorted.

so it only affects the earlier e46's 00--01?? and can be any engine size?? or just the 6 pots??

Richie in Dublin

11-08-2005, 09:04 AM

estoril 328

11-08-2005, 04:14 PM

As far as I know it's on 323,328ci from 99 to mid 00.

Another thing to note is that if you have changed your suspension in any way,BMW will refuse to fix it. Luckily they didn't spot my Eibachs as they are black.If anyone has red sportlines etc they'll need to swop them out before dropping it in. ;)

My car has had the suspension lowered, and is an import so much chance of getting it fixed for free. I had a good check on the car from my local indy and he didn't say anything was amiss, but i will ask him to check again when i have my exhaust fitted next week.

Infinity_UK

15-08-2005, 02:18 PM

Phone BMW to find out what is happening with my car. Its been with them since the 9th. The service guy told me " we are waiting for BMW to give us a yes or no" and told me that nothing going to happen this week probably.

He said I can call him everyday , so he can look at his computer screen to see if any information has come in.

So the wait continues.... .. . .

Tin

15-08-2005, 02:43 PM

da suspense is killin me............ did they take more photo's/vide clip to send back to BMW GB?

Infinity_UK

15-08-2005, 02:48 PM

They say they have, but who knows! I'm building my own protfolio to show them including pics, forum posts and videos or and a baseball bat! :eek:

Raj

15-08-2005, 08:42 PM

Good luck, I had a look at mine and there doesn't seem to be anything amiss (August 200 car). Hopefully won't be. You should deffo be asking for a courtesy car in the mean time though.

Infinity_UK

16-08-2005, 07:03 AM

Raj328,

They are refusing to give me a courtesy car, as they are still waiitng to hear from BMW GB. Until BMW GB agree to fixing me car and do it under a warrenty claim, im not entitled to anything. It's a real bummer.

Raj

16-08-2005, 11:24 AM

Oh well. But I would lay it on thick about the quality of your nice BM motor and that you wouldn't expect it from such a reputable manufacturer, etc, etc, etc. But still good luck with them.

estoril 328

18-08-2005, 05:54 PM

Estoril 328 - mines is a E46 328i 2000, same as yours!. Does you car make a thumping noise when chainging from 1st to 2nd gear? I'd ack it up and have a look for any cracks to be on the safe side.

Infinity

Sorry its took so long to get back to you. I have not noticed any funny noise when changing gear or in any other department. My local indy is going to check it on saturday when he fits new exhaust. I hope to god there is not a problem.
Do you know if this affect a large number of cars, or is it isolated?

Infinity_UK

26-08-2005, 11:21 AM

Heres the latest - On the 17th BMW agreed to fix my car under warrety. :) - its a £4500 repair taking 4 days. They said it will be ready in 4 days and the car was going to a BMW approved body shop. I asked for a loan car and they said they need authorization from BMWGB and I would get a call in the next 30mins. I did not get a call back.

It's the 26th now and so far I've left several messaged with the service guy I was delaing with, and he has not returned my calls - I've always been the one calling back.

On the 24th, I was told the car would be ready tomorrow as they just had finishing touches to do, and was told I would get a call yesterday morining (25th) ..... but did I get a call NO - I had to call up and chase again. Spoke to another service guy as the one I was dealing with was on the phone.
He checked with the body shop and told me that there was no way I was getting my car back this week or even nextweek and that I was mis-informed. [hmm I was told the service guy I was dealing with would call me back.... did he... ? NO. I had to call him back. He said it's strange and he was shocked, but there was a part missing that needed to be order etc.. you could tell he was just making it up.
He said he will try to get me a loan car and was going to phone me this morning. Did he call me...... NO I left two message with him today and still no luck.
Eventually got hold of some other guy in service who said they don't have many loan cars and its not going to be possible. He said he will call the body shop and let me know whats happening ASAP...its been 45 mins so far and still no call. I'm getting peeeed off with all this.

They have had my car for 16 days now, and I am stressing out, borrowing cars from mates and family etc and losing out. I need a car for to get to work. If the car is being repaired under warrenty, surly thay can give me a loan car.... right?

I'm going to chat to the manager and get things escalated - this is becoming a joke now.

Infinity_UK

26-08-2005, 11:36 AM

latest - On the 17th BMW agreed to fix my car under warrety. - its a £4500 repair taking 4 days. They said it will be ready in 4 days and the car was going to a BMW approved body shop. I asked for a loan car and they said they need authorization from BMWGB and I would get a call in the next 30mins. I did not get a call back.

It's the 26th now and so far I've left several messaged with the service guy I was delaing with, and he has not returned my calls - I've always been the one calling back.

On the 24th, I was told the car would be ready tomorrow as they just had finishing touches to do, and was told I would get a call yesterday morining (25th) ..... but did I get a call NO - I had to call up and chase again. Spoke to another service guy as the one I was dealing with was on the phone.
He checked with the body shop and told me that there was no way I was getting my car back this week or even nextweek and that I was mis-informed. I was told the service guy I was dealing with would call me back.... did he... ? NO. I had to call him back. He said it's strange and he was shocked, but there was a part missing that needed to be order etc.. you could tell he was just making it up.
He said he will try to get me a loan car and was going to phone me this morning. Did he call me...... NO I left two message with him today and still no luck.
Eventually got hold of some other guy in service who said they don't have many loan cars and its not going to be possible. He said he will call the body shop and let me know whats happening ASAP...its been 45 mins so far and still no call. I'm getting peeeed off with all this.

They have had my car for 16 days now, and I am stressing out, borrowing cars from mates and family etc and losing out. I need a car for to get to work. If the car is being repaired under warrenty, surly thay can give me a loan car.... right?

I'm going to chat to the manager and get things escalated - this is becoming a joke now.

Tin

26-08-2005, 11:40 AM

yikes dude.. yep speak with the manager or dealer principal and find out whats the score.. take it easy dude..don't get bent out of shape cos their lack of service skills..

Shuriken

26-08-2005, 12:51 PM

Gahh, thats awful. Surely you should have been driving away from the garage in a loan car when you dropped it off if its all on warranty? Anyway, hope you get it sorted soon.

On a sidenote, I booked my car in to a garage to have the rear wheel bearings checked (I know - again!) and the guy offered me a loan car for the day. Sounds like a great idea, more garages should do it I reckon. Sorry, hope you get yours sorted quickly though, what dealership are you dealing with?

Shuriken.

Infinity_UK

26-08-2005, 02:57 PM

Just asI was going to ring uo the manager and complain, I got a call. They have lent me a brand spanking new 1 series :D - At least I'm mobile again!

I'll keep the garage a secret until they do the repairs ;)

P.S The reckon the repairs wil lcontinue till next Friday!

estoril 328

26-08-2005, 02:59 PM

Nothing winds me up more than totally incompetant lying staff. I am surprised you have not been down their already to see what the score is. Customer services in the UK are shite. Rant over.

Shuriken

26-08-2005, 03:08 PM

At least you've got some wheels and can get about. You can take your time and rip them to shreds slowly now. :)

Shuriken.

paulm3

26-08-2005, 03:21 PM

yay.. courtesy car!! the fastest cars in the world... i got my last one taken off me :(:(:(

Infinity_UK

09-09-2005, 08:18 AM

Hi Guys,

The good news - One month after origianlly taking my car to BMW and leaving it with them, and after load of phone calls and chasing up , I've finally got my care back and repaired!!. The total cost of repair was over £7500, but luckily for me it was all covered under warrenty. Check out the pic!

I double checked it by looking uner my car and the repair has been done [cool

The bad new - My original problems was a thumping noise when I change form 1st to 2nd, and after all this its still happening!!! I think it may be the clutch...but have to ge tthat checked out now!

Raj

09-09-2005, 08:59 AM

£7500 :eek: :eek: :eek: .

Do you have a warranty (or did they just do the repair under a warranty claim)? I don't have a warranty so hope this does not happen to me. If it does, I'll just buy a new car...

Glad it's sorted though.

Infinity_UK

09-09-2005, 10:28 AM

Raj328,

My car was out of warrenty, but they still fixed it as it was a design fault and a safety issue! :)

Nickleback

09-09-2005, 12:02 PM

Hi Guys,

The good news - One month after origianlly taking my car to BMW and leaving it with them, and after load of phone calls and chasing up , I've finally got my care back and repaired!!. The total cost of repair was over £7500, but luckily for me it was all covered under warrenty. Check out the pic!

I double checked it by looking uner my car and the repair has been done [cool

£7500 :eek: :eek:
Result that they paid for it tho :D
If the thumping noise is in any way connected to the original problem, should'nt they cover that as well ? :(

danch

09-09-2005, 12:32 PM

Could be signs of a worn guibo / flex disc / driveshaft coupling as I have heard that it is a common problem.

Another thing is it could be the CDV (Clutch Delay Valve) as that would allow you to change gear then a second later the clutch engages fully, loads of the e46fanatics members have removed theirs as it gives a disjointed feel to the clutch.

HTH

Daniel

peppernick

09-09-2005, 12:48 PM

Another thing is it could be the CDV (Clutch Delay Valve) as that would allow you to change gear then a second later the clutch engages fully, loads of the e46fanatics members have removed theirs as it gives a disjointed feel to the clutch.
The first thing I removed from my car. Worth every effort. I don't know why BMW bothers putting it there in the first place.

Glad you got things sorted.

Infinity_UK

09-09-2005, 01:33 PM

I'm affraid of going back to BMW as they may change their mind about the free service.
What I have noticed is then when the car is stationary and I press the clutch and then release it, I hear the thumping coming from the back of the car - sounds like something is in the boot and is rolling around! It's really bad from first to second gear. It may be the CDV. I'll have to take it to some cluch speicalist or maybe the independant BMW specialist I went to just under a year ago to have the replacment clutch put in.

Thanks guys.

peppernick

09-09-2005, 01:37 PM

It's not the CDV. You won't get a thumping noise. If it's coming from the rear, it may be your diff of diff end of the prop shaft. But one can speculate all he wants, best thing is to check the entire drivetrain over.

danch

09-09-2005, 01:40 PM

Definately get the guibo checked out as it is part of the propshaft and could be causing the clunk , as if worn that would cause the problem.

Cheers

Daniel

Tin

09-09-2005, 07:59 PM

hey, thats wicked mate.. glad it all worked out ok in the end! [ok

Shuriken

09-09-2005, 10:35 PM

Nice to hear its all sorted, good luck with the clunking.

Shuriken.

Raj

10-09-2005, 04:45 AM

Raj328,

My car was out of warrenty, but they still fixed it as it was a design fault and a safety issue! :)

Cool, that is really good news. Could you email me (raj_bahia@hotmail.com) any correspondence you may have to do with this and the dealers name and location. It will be worthwhile keeping just for peace of mind if in the future this happens to me.

Also, hope you get the other issue sorted so you can get back to some trouble free cruisin'.

Cheers.

Infinity_UK

13-09-2005, 10:37 AM

peppernick

13-09-2005, 11:47 AM

Originally BMW said it was the rubber diff mounts that were gone - do you think it could be this?. The wanted to charge me £430 for it. They said the part cost £30, but tis the labour you pay for. I would have expected them to have sorted that out while they were doing the subframe problem. I'll have to ask them.
BMW won't 'sort it out' for you. They may realise the diff mounts need changing and charge you for it. I would just take it to an independent garage.

Infinity_UK

16-09-2005, 08:54 AM

Went to a very good independent BMW garage (the one that originally told me about the subframe issue) to get the thumping noise checked out.

The guy checked the guibo, the propshaft and spent over 45 mins looking at it to recreate the sound , but could not anything wrong with the car.

Even when you are in neutral and then put the clutch down and then put it into gear you can hear the clunking. Could it be related to the gearbox?

danch

16-09-2005, 09:07 AM

Could it be that the clutch needs a bleeding at all, just sounds like the clutch is not getting realeased all the way therefore catching when putting into gear or possibly the clutch is worn?

Also another job i will be doing is removing the CDV as that will give a delayed feel to the clutch and I hate the clutch feel at the moment.

HTH

Daniel

K3V HA

16-09-2005, 09:39 AM

Ive just read this for first time, and wow how scary is this that it could happen with a BMW. i must personally thank some of the guys on here, as i came on here before i bought my 320ci, and a few told me to stay away from 323s i was lookin at incase this happened.

Glad you sorted it out Infinity, which dealer did you deal with btw?

Infinity_UK

27-09-2005, 11:16 AM

I called BMW again to tell them the original problem is still there, the service guy I was dealing with said, I don't know why they did not do the repair on the diff mount - Don't know how we are going to do this. I will call you back in 5 mins. I waited and waited and called back and left 2 message son that day. I kept doing this for 5 days, with messages left with his colleagues (who sits right next to him), I had the phone hang up and fair rude people answering the phone.

I was fed up and called BMW GB customer services... I have to say he was just listening to me and not really showing too much concern, but did say he will call the Service Manager at the Branch and get him to call me. I waited and a 3 hours later I got a call from the service guy I was dealing with. He said he only got the messages today and he was told to call me by Service manager. He also said I was 1 of 60 people he has to call today - year i believe him - more excuses.

Anyway he said he will try to get it repaired under a good will guesture, and it will take a couple of days to know of the outcome. So now I'm a waiting a couple of days (will see how long that will take!).

Overall the customer service has been really poor..... its worse than that its abismal.

I'll keep you posted.

Nickleback

27-09-2005, 05:54 PM

I, like you have suffered real problems with BMW warranty issues for over 6 months & based on my experience I would recommend going to BMW GB & contacting the Regional Service Manager for you area to raise the level of your complaint to get it sorted properly.
If this fails to work, I do have the name of their service director - Grrrrrrrrr
PM me if you need it!
Good luck

Enforcer

29-09-2005, 04:58 PM

Hmm Wembley/Slough eh?

so did he pick the nearest to home or work?

If home probably Scothalls in Stanmore. If it is I'm not surprised the trouble you've had regarding service. I've not been impressed with their attitude when I've been there.

BTW I would not have put up with them having your car a not giving you a loaner (hell they could have given you a demo car if they had run out of loaners) for so long.