Can anyone help/any ideas? [Archive]

BeemerBoy888

25-02-2007, 07:05 PM

Guys,

Driving last wednesday, I was getting a lot of vibration through my steering wheel at 40 to 70mph (car is E46 M3). Thought it might be a flat tyre (or felt abit like that), checked all the wheels but they were fine.

Been ok since then, but today, there was heavy vibration through the steering wheel at 40 odd mph. Parked up, got out the car and checked all the tyres again. As I was doing that, I could hear a kind of ticking or crackling noise coming from behind the front driver wheel. When I started driving again, the vibration was a little less:confused:

Any ideas?

cheers

peppernick

25-02-2007, 07:39 PM

Seized brake piston/pistons? The ticking noise could be from your overheated brake disc. Has the disc decolourised?

A caliper rebuild and clean can very often solve the problem.

Chaos

25-02-2007, 08:04 PM

Sounds like a sticky caliper piston to me. You'll generally hear some pinking as the running gear cools down anyway, but it has to be either piston or balancing, and the latter would vibrate all the time.

Stock323iSaloon

25-02-2007, 08:18 PM

if your piston is stuck, then the disc will be v-v hot. u can get a caliper rebuild kit from BMW (12 quid or so) so just replace the seals and clean the piston well:)

NIL 7090

25-02-2007, 08:38 PM

I had the same thing with my M3, so took it to have the front wheel's checked for balance and found there were no weight's on either wheel, I had new tyres fitted 5 months ago and i think they forgot to balance them but they said they must have fallen off(have you ever tried taking them off, they have to cut them off with a knife)after this the car was better and then went for its MOT two weeks later and when they jacked the front of the car up to check suspension they spin the wheels to make sure they spin freely and the offside was catching, so they stripped down the caliper cleaned,lubricated and rebuilt. It seems ok now but for how long? they did say i should look at changing the caliper in the near future though.
hope this helps

BeemerBoy888

25-02-2007, 09:12 PM

NIL 7090

25-02-2007, 09:31 PM

thanks for the quick reply guys. does sound like what you guys are thinking. can i clean and rebuild the caliper myself or take to garage/dealer?

is it dangerous to drive with this? my car has only done 15K miles, it this normal to have this problem?

mine had done 25,000 mile's, one thing to look at on the disc that the caliper is sticking on, the outer edge where the rust is mine is a brick red colour as its got hot, and on the outher side its grey.

BeemerBoy888

26-02-2007, 10:14 AM

I will have a look at the brake disc today to see if they are decolourised?

Will a tyre/brake specialist place like Elite be able to do the job?

BeemerBoy888

26-02-2007, 11:12 AM

Raj

26-02-2007, 11:42 AM

Just had a look at all the brake discs and the one in question has a redish colour around the edges, whereas the other 3 have a clean shiny finish.

Does this confirm that its a problem with the caliper? What needs to be done/changed/cleaned?

cheers guys

It does confirm that it is a seized piston. As others have mentioned in the previous posts, you will need to rebuild the caliper. You can get the rebuild kit from the dealer which will contain new seals, etc.

Stock323iSaloon

26-02-2007, 11:47 AM

the dealer will strongly suggest u get a new caliper, i think the labour charge will be almost the same as getting a new caliper... seized after 15k is pretty shit really...maybe get BMW to cough up for good will gesture:) if your piston is siezed, the pads will be very worn so check how much is left against other calipers.

BeemerBoy888

26-02-2007, 11:57 AM

Yeh seized piston after 15K is pretty shocking!

Mitsu, would you say its better to get the re-build kit from the dealer and take to an independent specialist or change the caliper completely at the dealers and then change the brake pad independently?

Anyone got any idea of costs:confused:

Need to do a lot of driving in the next couple of days, will it be ok to drive on this first or does it need to be sorted ASAP?

Stock323iSaloon

26-02-2007, 12:08 PM

if it is a seized caliper then the problem will just get worse because u simply cannot get to the affected area by simply hosing it down with water or jet air. repair kit is only 12 quid (34111157037) so if u find a good indy they may do it cheaply. i assume you're looking for BMW calipers, as opposed to OEM patterned ones? if so, BMW ones go for 170-ish. if it's a simple job, like changing pads, then i can't see why you want to go to a dealer. if u don't mind, lots of people on this forum can do it so if you're skint u know where to call:)

BeemerBoy888

26-02-2007, 01:17 PM

do you think then its worth getting the caliper from the dealer and taking it to an independent (my best local is probably Elite tyres) or just cleaning and re-building the caliper? bearing in mind car has only done the 15K miles

cheers:)

Stock323iSaloon

26-02-2007, 03:00 PM

from my own experience rebuilding calipers (dirty and time consuming), if u can afford a new caliper then i'd go with that, especially if u intend on keeping the car. if u're skint, bring it to mine and I'll fit it for you for a Big Mac meal:D I'd still make a point about getting a good will gesture from BMW (maybe they will pay towards the new caliper or free labour).

BeemerBoy888

26-02-2007, 07:04 PM

cheers for the offer mitsu. i'll try take some pics and see if anyone can tell how bad it may be. if it warrants a change of caliper then I will get that done:(

I'm not great on these things, so can someone explain if the problem is to do with brake caliper, how comes the vibration comes through the steering wheel under acceleration and not braking:confused: :o

NIL 7090

26-02-2007, 08:07 PM

adood84

26-02-2007, 08:11 PM

your car only did 15k miles and your not making BMW do it under warranty ?!!!

go to them and make them fix for you for free

Stock323iSaloon

26-02-2007, 08:24 PM

I'm not great on these things, so can someone explain if the problem is to do with brake caliper, how comes the vibration comes through the steering wheel under acceleration and not braking:confused: :o

i'm no expert but i think it occurs because when the caliper piston is stuck 'out', it is like braking constantly and as your car/brake disk tries to move forward, this causes quick succession of on/off contact and hence the judder. pads should wear quickly on one side and your car may even pull to one side too, but the tell-tell sign is the hot disk/calipers. if this is left then your disc may become warped too.

we're all talking here on the basis of your piston being seized but it may be more simple like unbalance or ill-seated wheels but that's a long shot fromwhat you're saying.

BeemerBoy888

26-02-2007, 08:40 PM

your car only did 15k miles and your not making BMW do it under warranty ?!!!

go to them and make them fix for you for free

car is out of warranty dude

BeemerBoy888

01-03-2007, 11:09 AM

Bit of a long shot guys, but can anyone tell what may be the problem from these photos?

Front Driver Side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/steve268/frontdriver.jpg

Rear Driver Side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/steve268/reardriver.jpg

Front Passenger Side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/steve268/frontpassenger.jpg

Rear Passenger Side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/steve268/rearpassenger.jpg

cheers:)

Raj

01-03-2007, 12:55 PM

From those photos all the other discs, apart from the offside front, look fiine, so definitely does look like a seized piston/caliper. It's definitely not balancing or anything like that.

BeemerBoy888

01-03-2007, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the response Raj. I noticed today when driving for half an hour the steering wheel was shaking a lot again and when I got out the car the front drivers side wheel/brakes was really really hot compared the other three.

However when I drove for half an hour again, an hour later, the wheel/brakes were not hot??

From the photos and description, can anyone suggest what exactly needs to be changed? Need to do quite a bit of driving over the next couple of days, only get time to change it next week, will it be ok??:confused:

Stock323iSaloon

01-03-2007, 07:10 PM

if the disc/caliper/wheel was hot, then it's defo sticky caliper piston.

cheap way
caliper gasket kit 12 quid + labour

middle ground way
2nd hand caliper approx 50 quid + labour

expensive way
new caliper 170-200 quid + labour

U may also want to check brake pads as it may have totally worn down on one side, and also your brake discs as they can warp

when i got the vibration, i usually tapped on the brake pedal once to remedy that instance but it'll come back again...

peppernick

01-03-2007, 07:13 PM

Jack the front of the car up and spin the wheels. You'll feel binding straight away if it's present.

BeemerBoy888

06-03-2007, 05:36 PM

Had this all checked now and been advised to change front pads and discs (as a pair to avoid brake pull) and the front offside caliper (again advised better to change as a pair)

Long and short of it, hella lot of £££, although I can get the OEM parts from my dealer for a good discount and get some private work for fitting, still hurts because car has only done 15K miles!

Anyone got any other ideas to the above?

Looks like the diagnosis also suggests that the front discs are badly warped. is this a common problem for the M3?

With the price of the OEM parts, it might be worth upgrading to Teddy's options?

cheers guys

BeemerBoy888

24-03-2007, 11:27 PM

NIL 7090

25-03-2007, 02:26 PM

*update*
changed the front pair of brake discs, pads and offside caliper. this has stopped the overheating and pinging of brake discs.

However, driving the last few days, still seem to be getting a fairly strong, constant vibration on the steering wheel:confused:

Anyone got any ideas or what else i can check?

cheers

Try getting your wheels rebalanced,it worked on mine.
hope this helps
Nick

BeemerBoy888

25-03-2007, 03:15 PM

cheers dude, will give that a go

adood84

25-03-2007, 03:32 PM

*update*
changed the front pair of brake discs, pads and offside caliper. this has stopped the overheating and pinging of brake discs.

However, driving the last few days, still seem to be getting a fairly strong, constant vibration on the steering wheel:confused:

Anyone got any ideas or what else i can check?

cheers

have hit a pothole or something hard recently? because if you did it might have bent one of the wheels or something , they should be able to check if the wheels are ok while rebalancing them

BeemerBoy888

01-04-2007, 12:06 PM

*Update 2*

Also had all 4 wheels re-balanced and am Still getting vibration through the steering wheel:confused:

Haven't gone over any potholes or over any big kerbs or anything?? What else could be causing the vibration? Anything else I can check?

madmatt m3

01-04-2007, 03:33 PM

after all the work that you have done ont he front brakes mate try jacking the car up and seeing if there is any play in the wheel maybe a track rod end or ball joint that has given up. that will cause a vibration thro the steering wheel. the only movement you should get is the slack in the steering rack

BeemerBoy888

01-04-2007, 10:06 PM

maybe a track rod end or ball joint that has given up.

thanks for the reply mate, can you explain this further please? Is this a common problem?

madmatt m3

01-04-2007, 10:38 PM

the track rod end is the bit that attaches the wheel hub to the steering rack mate and the ball joints connect the wheel hub to the suspension bottom arms. all they are are ball and socket type joints with a rubber housing around them and filled with grease. If the rubber splits then the grease leaks out and causes premature failure of the joint which will give you some vibration through the steering rack and column.

I wouldnt say its a common fault but i have known it happen on relatively new cars.

Jack the car up and sit in front of the wheel, grab hold of the wheel in a quarter to 3 position (like a steering wheel) and try to move it left to right and then up and down. you shouldnt get any movement at all but if you do then you know its one of the 2 problems i mentioned earlier.

sorry its not very descriptive mate its kind of hard to explain but you will understand what i mean when you actually try it.

BeemerBoy888

02-04-2007, 05:19 PM

thanks mate will give that a go aswell

Chaos

02-04-2007, 05:29 PM

Actually, that is a common problem on the E46 M3. :)

BeemerBoy888

02-04-2007, 09:58 PM

Dan, any similar problems on your car before? Best solutions bro?

Need to get the car right for summer driving:p

madmatt m3

02-04-2007, 10:13 PM

Actually, that is a common problem on the E46 M3. :)

Really??:eek: I'll have to check mine now then just to make sure :)

SpeedTrap

02-04-2007, 10:16 PM

Looks like the diagnosis also suggests that the front discs are badly warped. is this a common problem for the M3?

Just from my personal experience; I had to change my brake discs twice (twice fronts, once rears) over by the time I had done about 35k miles. I did ask my dealership as well and he have had quite a few M3s suffering from the same problem (about 10k is the max when you drive hard), and at the end of the day I had enough agro and went for BBKs. Might be a worthwhile option and they sort of last a "long long" time...:)

On a slight note, make sure that the discs are fitted properly (the way the vents are placed) if you go back to OEMs. That would cause the discs to overheat and warp.

BeemerBoy888

04-04-2007, 05:23 PM

seems to be more vibration on slower speeds than when it hits 60mph+? still have to check the track rod/ball joint

madmatt m3

04-04-2007, 08:02 PM

wheel balancing problems usually show up in the 40-60mph zone thats when you are most likely to notice it.

for the sake of 5 mins a side id check the track/rod ball joints even if its to rule them out

SpeedTrap

04-04-2007, 09:17 PM

One last thing to check is your shocks, mounts and link rods. I have had that before and it causes the vibration as well.

BeemerBoy888

05-04-2007, 12:24 AM

If it is the shocks/mounts/track rods/ball joints what sort of cost are we looking at?

girlpower

05-04-2007, 09:14 AM

hopefully it is just that...good luck with getting it sorted!!! :)

SpeedTrap

05-04-2007, 05:29 PM

Two options - one to go for the OEM replacement with a BMW dealership (they will surely ask you to replace both sides) which is quite costly (check with Eurocarparts in case you want a cheaper OEM which I think is equally as good). Second is to go for coilovers which I am sure the forum members can recommend. I personally go for Teins (talking about near 900 for all four - inclusive of mounts, link rods, etc):):)

Chaos

05-04-2007, 05:35 PM

Steve, I've recently had all my suspension out, so it's sitting in a box right now. If you want to borrow the old shocks just to throw in and see, you're welcome to use them mate.

If you're going to go down the coilover route by way of not bothering to faff about with the whole thing, then the Teins for the M3 are very good and carry the Chaos seal of approval ;) (I'll gladly give you the number of my guy if you want someone pukka to fit them for you too). One phone call to Roy and you're sorted buddy, I was 3km up an Austrian mountain looking down a red run whilst talking to Laura :eek:, I'm not joking either lol, and they were at Andy's shop ready for collection by my main man the next day. That's service for ya. ;)

TREs aren't cheap, the last one I had done was on the last day of my warranty and they said it was like £200-odd of part plus labour (dealer bong-smoke pricing, mind). Germ+Swe would therefore probably get you a pair for that, but it's not an insignificant sum. That said, the M3 does tend to eat them if you work it hard, so it may not be a bad move in any case.

My only concern with all of the above is that I'd expect items like that to cause the problem consistently. Yours seems to be too intermittent for that kind of mechanical problem. :confused:

SpeedTrap

05-04-2007, 05:41 PM

Funny enough I have a full set if you want to try out (not for sale); if you care to pick it up from North London (also know a very very good mechanic in North London as well) who just charge you hourly rates....

BeemerBoy888

05-04-2007, 07:07 PM

Thanks for your advice guys (Dan, Jerome, thats a kind offer which I will PM you about if they needed, thanks dudes:) )

Dan, the steering wheel was vibrating quite significantly before I had the discs, pads and one side of the caliper changed. I've also has all 4 wheels re-balanced now.

Now the steering wheel is vibrating less violently but must consistently and constantly:confused: Also I noticed today and a couple of days ago that when slowing down to park and turning the steering wheel Full Lock, there is is a strange sound (only happened a couple of times)

Just a bit surprised that I'm getting some of these problems with only 16K on the clock:eek: . I'm trying to seek advice from you guys to check and eliminate each potential permitting cause.

Any further help and advice is much appreciated;)